Eckart Death Bed Quote
Haemers:
Let me propose that you rebut one point I made in one of my essays debating your thesis. I showed that the final original source for the Eckart death bed quote was the akashic record. As an example, please respond to my proof. You can find it here:
“Atwill vs. Haemers: Who Created the National Socialist Party? - #2”
“Follow Hitler. He will dance, but it is I who have called the tune! I have initiated him into the ‘Secret Doctrine;’ opened his centers in vision and given him the means to communicate with the Powers. Do not mourn for me: I shall have influenced history more than any German.”
-Did Dietrich Eckart really say this?
Bolshevism from Moses to Lenin: A Dialogue Between Adolf Hitler and Me
Atwill:
I agree with your criticism of Eckhart's (sic) death bed quote, Good research. If I cannot find a better citation, I will remove it from my upcoming book. I am acquiring some badly needed research material to see if I can find the actual source and will provide it ASAP once I uncover it.
Haemers: Yes. I thought the source trail for the death bed quote led to an unreliable source. I appreciate that you are willing to reconsider this point. I remain focused on a pursuit of the truth, and not necessarily opposed to your view.
I am almost certain no other credible source for Eckart’s quote can be found. The rest of Spear of Destiny is the most obvious comic-book level demonization propaganda and preposterous atrocity stories using occult tropes, so the Eckart quote is surely more of the same. I am glad I could help your book quality as a genuine factual historical account.
Use of Swastika
Atwill:
…you cited Hitler's claim concerning his decision to use the the (sic) swastika, but for some reason failed to mention that all of the Theosophical proto fascist organizations - Edda, Ariosophy, Thule, New Templars etc, - had used it as their symbol long before he came on the scene.
Haemers:
Yes, and I did mention all the earlier NS and proto-NS organizations, and even ancient Aryan, and even Communist, groups that used the swastika too, long before Hitler. That is essentially my point: many groups and peoples were displaying this symbol, long before Hitler, and long before Theosophy. They each got it from these precursors, with no reason to think either got it from the other. They both had common sources.
We are each using the term “proto-fascist’ or ‘proto-NS.’ I see that you refer to the occult societies and Freemasonic lodges, and I refer to those organizations that preceded the NSDAP as roots of its founding ideology, iconography and political orientation.
I recently read in For my Legioniaries by Codreanu that the National Christian Defense League in Romania was displaying swastika flags in 1923. “Codreanu explained the banner of the National Christian Defense League (L.A.N.C.): ‘The cloth of these flags was black - a sign of mourning; in the center a round white spot, signifying our hopes surrounded by the darkness they will have to conquer; in the center of the white, a swastika, the symbol of anti-Semitic struggle throughout the world; and all around the flag, a bând of the Romanian tricolor - red, yellow and blue.’" (p.4)
Here is my first essay developing the origins of the NSDAP, “Tangents Lead to Taboo Truths #4: Origins of National Socialism.” This is my first reply to Atwill as well. We learn that The National Social Association was founded by Friedrich Naumann in 1896. Hitler was only 7 years old. While it did not display swastikas, it is another example of an origin influence on the NSDAP that was not Freemasonic or Theosophical.
Atwill:
Isn't the notion that Hitler was not influenced by these proto-fascist organizations' use of the symbol too weak to even require a response? Do you really want to try and defend that idea in public?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_the_New_Templars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariosophy
Haemers:
I openly acknowledge and embrace that Hitler was influenced by the proto-fascist and proto-NS organizations and philosophers both Hitler and I cite. Rudolf Jung is one example. Mussolini’s Italian Fascists was another. Yes, I want to defend the idea in public, and I am willing to defend all my ideas in public, even if I may be shown wrong on some of the points. Do you?
I am reluctant to read your wikipedia links and something called "death camp memorial site." I am sure there is one thing we can agree on, and please confirm: the holocaust was a hoax. We might also agree wikipedia is judeo-masonic or at least Zionist propaganda mind control. If I use wikipedia at all, I try to go to the sources wikipedia uses for its entries. They are often compromised too, but at least they are not wikipedia directly.
In reviewing the deathcampmemorialsite, we see a number of great errors, such as claiming Hitler was a member of The Thule Society. I will show that is false later. We also see this: “The society itself became an insignificant organization, which, according to the regulation of 1937, was dissolved. All lodges and similar organizations were banned.” It is more likely the Thule Society was banned before 1937. This statement from your source shows the NSDAP persecuted and disbanded occult societies, rather than having roots in them.
Thule Truth
Haemers:
Staudenmaier on the Thule Society. From his essay “The Nazis as occult masters? It’s a good story but not history” (more on Staudenmaier in the section on Kurlander):
"The short-lived Thule Society, which gained brief notoriety in the aftermath of the First World War, is frequently portrayed as a paradigmatic example of the ‘secret societies’ that supposedly gave birth to the Nazi party. While the organisation was indeed secretive, and its modest membership did include several figures who went on to become leading Nazis, it was not an occult order. The founder of the group, who went by the invented aristocratic name of Rudolf von Sebottendorff (he was in fact the son of a train driver), had extensive occultist interests, but they seem to have been met with indifference from the rest of the members. This is not surprising, since the Thule Society was in reality a political organisation committed to Right-wing radicalism, not esoteric machinations. Aside from spreading antisemitic propaganda, its chief activities consisted of militant confrontations with the Left in the Munich area. Hitler had nothing to do with the group. The notion of the Thule Society as incubator of the Nazi party is a product of Sebottendorff’s megalomaniacal imagination; years after the organisation dissolved, he published a spurious memoir claiming that he played a crucial role in nurturing the early Nazi movement. There has never been any evidence for such claims." (bold mine)
Sebottendorf bust. Fake name, false prophet
I will let this stand as my rebuttal to your depiction of the Thule Society, since it comes from one of your own sources. I consider Staudenmaier a credible expert on the Thule Society and your sources as discredited anti-”Nazi” propagandists.
“…irrational explanations have been eagerly and often carelessly embraced by popular audiences as supplement or substitute for the economic and political rationales of mainstream historians. Lending a false note of credence to a farrago of ungrounded speculation, the Thule Society gained a prominent place in the legend of an “occult Reich” after being cited in several prominent pseudo-histories. In the pantheon of popular culture Thule became evil incarnate, a shadow in the dark zone where fantasy eclipsed facts.”
-Luhrssen, David, Hammer of the Gods: The Thule Society and the Birth of Nazism, Potomac Books, Washington D.C, 2012, p. 208
I’m afraid your sources on the Thule Society are from these pseudo-histories. Mine are from honest history, though taboo truth as well.
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Part 6 will focus on the new source Mr. Atwill has introduced beyond those found in his original thesis: Eric Kurlander’s “‘One Foot in Atlantis, One in Tibet’ The Roots and Legacies of Nazi Theories on Atlantis, 1890-1945.”
Part 6 will be offered to our Support Cadre of Taboo Truth Folk.You help move truth forth.
Atwill- "I am acquiring some badly needed research material to see if I can find the actual source and will provide it ASAP once I uncover it"
I am conjuring up an image of Joe sweating bullets as he is rummaging in an enormous pile of BADLY NEEDED books, tossing them over his head behind him, to-and-fro, and side-to-side, in a frantic search to "uncover" the assumed or imagined "actual source" of the quotation!
There is always a line where it ends in overinterpretion of things, the article series sure made me do a facepalm record for this year, i read alot about the Nationalsozialisten as i am German living in german but like everyone here having information deficite, on purpose. But alot of these are over the top. Very close to disinfo.